Conversation recorded & transcribed around the kitchen table at Empty Bottle on July 11th, 2024.

Matt Ciarleglio: I talked with Tim Showalter from Strand Of Oaks the other day. He was wearing a Bully shirt. It was pretty fun.

Alicia Bognanno: Oh, yeah! Awww. [laughs]

Matt C: We talked about the show that you guys did in 2015!

Alicia: That was years ago!

Matt C: It was quite a while ago! I'm pretty sure that I've worked every show that you played here, which is pretty awesome. [laughs]

Alicia B: Oh, my god. How many shows is that!?

Matt C: It's hard to go back in time but it was the end of 2022 when you did the Riot Fest after party, that was your last show here. And you did Thalia Hall last year, New Years Eve at the Bottle in 2016, then in 2021 you did the string of three sold out shows here, which very much felt like our return to normalcy [post-pandemic] in a lot of ways. I remember it being such a joyous event, because it kind of felt like the world was opening back up.

Alicia B: Yeah.

Matt C: It was still super weird and odd to be around people at a sold-out show. And then your Strand of Oaks show, which I think was your first time that you played here in 2015!?

Alicia B: Oh, my god I have no memory. My life drinking and without, I don't remember anything from my life drinking.

Matt C: Same here, yeah. I totally get that for sure. But needless to say, you know, you've been to Chicago a million times. You're coming back in December with Suki Waterhouse. Which is fucking awesome. But anyways, welcome back to Chicago! Are there any places that you always try to go to when you're in Chicago? Any favorite spots?

Alicia B: Everything in Chicago! I just love Chicago. Electrical Audio is here. I spent a lot of time there. I’m gonna go there tomorrow. I feel like I always end up here [laughs]. I feel like I play here all the time. But nothing in particular. I just kind of make my way around.

Matt C: I mean, there's so many spots to go to it never really gets old. 

Alicia: Yeah. I used to love going to the Handlebar and I just haven’t been there in a really long time. Oh yeah, and then Quimby’s was a spot that I used to go to that I haven't been in so long!

Matt C: They're both still around! Delicious food and great books, yeah, good choices. Speaking of Electrical Audio, you interned there back in the day? How was that experience?

Alicia: Yeah, it was incredible. We just formed a very close bond and I was given the keys very early on. I wrote the beginning of a lot of Bully stuff there, before Bully was a thing. And then I immediately went back for my first record and my second record, so I've spent a lot of time there. 

Matt C: That's super cool. 

Alicia B: Yeah, it's probably the most special place in my life ever.

Matt C: So, you have four full length albums at this point. Newest one being Lucky For You.

Alicia B: Yeah!

Matt C: I personally love the record, not just saying that [laughs]. 

Alicia B: Thanks!

Matt C: For me at least, I feel that there's always been this incredible, like, sense of longing with tinges of anger and a lot of fun in your past records. You know, with Sugar Egg, Losing, and Feels Like. And this new one is also super fun but it definitely feels like it's pushing some new boundaries for you musically, and even more so with your new single, Atom Bomb, which feels gut-wrenchingly intimate and personal. At least that’s what it feels like to me. Do you want to tell us a little bit of what that song is about?

Alicia B: It is. I first recorded it at a time where I was just trying to write more. I was trying to be a little less direct and a little more poetic, lyrically. I didn't think that I was ever going to put it out, because it was a piano song, and I felt like I was just insecure that people wouldn't like it. Because rock music is a particular thing, I feel like. But it's crazy, because I've just learned with the Bully audience who, like, I'm sure I will recognize so many faces here tonight!

This is a very special place. I guess it’s from Covid when I learned this, but when I had to do stripped down things and I was super, super nervous, and I was kind of just freaking out about it, and then I did it, and I did the live comments as I went, and everybody was just rooting for me! It was so sweet. It was an overload of positivity. And I think that alone kind of opened the door for me to experiment a lot more. And having now done a few solo shows, and have kind of experimented with keyboard stuff, it's just everybody's been so nice and kind. Anyway, I was nervous to put that out, and then I did, and everybody was so sweet and receptive and really loved it.

It wasn't even like, “That's fine”. They were like, “I'm crying”. [Laughs] But yeah, so a handful of those lyrics were when I was kind of intentionally trying to be a little bit more creative. And I think that lyrically I've been very entertained, because I just am always trying to do different things with it. 

And I feel like I can look at musicians like Craig from The Hold Steady, or John from The Mountain Goats, the three of us did a solo tour together, and there's just a lot of really admirable people that spend a lot of time lyrically. And I feel like my era of music, it doesn't really get emphasized a lot, and so I have a really unique love for it, because a lot of my favorite people like Paul Westerberg, Jeff Tweedy, all those people I had in mind, kind of writing that. I went back and re-tracked the first verse, and I just had had one of those experiences where Unfortunately, many people probably have something happen in their life that you kind of just… you just kind of change the way you view humanity in a really devastating way [both laugh].

I got right back from tour, I just had some crazy shit happen and I went right into rewriting those lyrics, and I just poured all of it into that and then I tracked it. You can tell in my voice, it’s just so, so shot. There's so many new things in that song, in so many different ways, but that's more or less the idea of it.

Matt C: That’s great. It’s a beautiful song!

Alicia B: Thank you. Thanks.

Matt C: So, from my understanding, you started to really open up about mental health and sobriety about four years ago or so. First off, it really takes immense strength and courage to be able to open up about that. So, props to you. You should be proud of yourself. I'm proud of you!

Alicia B: Thanks!

Matt C: I think it's fucking awesome. Yeah, it's just a really, really inspiring thing to see more people like you starting to talk about this stuff and let people know that it's normal to feel anything at all. So, can you tell me a little bit about how your journey to sobriety started?

Alicia B: I had been drinking since I was 13 and have been doing Bully for nine years now. And drinking was always just a crutch for me, for a lot of things, a lot of times in social situations. I'm very neurodivergent, so it was kind of my way of fitting in. And I kind of figured if I got people drinks and fitted in that way that I could just maintain some sort of social persona without feeling very odd and kind of like out of the box.

I have bipolar type two disorder, along with other neurodivergent things, and drinking would just trigger things for me. My body's chemistry feels things 10 times more than it should, so drinking was just… it mentally completely broke me. And so, I just kind of got to the point where I either need to stop now or I'm gonna hurt myself or somebody else. I can't do this. It's very not okay. And so unfortunately it took a few very bad nights. I kind of was rock bottom with it. I was like, I don't really have another choice right now except to stop drinking.

And it was really, really interesting going back into touring. I had never toured without drinking before. And I always would drink when I got to venues, before I played, after I played. It was just a massive part of it. So going without it was really difficult, because I hadn't and then I was just fully back in my head on stage, and I was just full of nerves. 

And I think there's this huge issue in rock music where they almost romanticize it, and I think it's really horrible. And people still will ask about it. They'll be like, “Did it affect your art?”. And I just think that's a really dangerous conversation to open up, because it's insinuating that it would. And I know directly, when I stopped, I was worried about that, because so many people were bringing it up, it made it a lot more difficult for me, for sure. That was a real fear. And now I know that I write better music than I ever have, hands down, because of it. So I just like to call that stuff out, because that upsets me, that like really kind of gets to me.

Matt C: You articulated that perfectly, because I feel the same way where, like, once I got over the initial hump of getting sober, I started to think about the inspiration as a teenager to become a musician and play music. And I was idolizing these rock and roll stars that you know, literally “drug, sex, rock and roll”. Like, you have to do those things and be this tortured artist to achieve this sort of status. It's so fucked up to idolize those things and think that you can't make good art without it.

Alicia B: Totally. If you're an actual artist, writing is like a form of existence. You know what I'm saying?

Matt C: Absolutely.

Alicia B: It's kind of dehumanizing for people to put an emphasis on the worst physical state an artist can be. And you know, at that point, you're just using it as a form of entertainment for yourself.

Matt C: Yeah, then people then start associating your art with that, and it's just a terrible spiral.

Alicia B: The thing is, the thing that I don't even think these people think about is like, it's not sustainable. A lot of the bands that you meet who have been touring since the 90s, they're sober. And that's why they're able to fucking tour like that. It's just, it's not sustainable. It's a nightmare, and it's a nightmare for everyone else involved on the tour. It's the worst but I do feel like people are getting a lot more, like, speaking up about it a lot more, and I feel like things have gotten a lot better and it's more normalized now in a way that's very satisfying. Or it's just a relief. Because I'm sure you dealt with this too, but a lot of the things when you first stop drinking, everybody kind of makes a thing of it. If you're out, and I don't go into bars, but like, if you're at a family event, it's like this thing that everyone's like, “Why don't you do that?”

Matt C: [Laughs]

Alicia B: And you're just like, can you just chill!? [laughs] I'm just standing here with the water. That conversation is part of it. So, it's just really nice with venues, and I actually was super relieved that venues have, for the most part, been really cool about it, because if I hadn't had that, I wouldn't have been able to do it.

Matt C: That's great. Yeah, that's really great. Fuck yeah. Well, I don't want to keep you too much longer. So, do you have any advice for others, musicians in particular, that might be struggling? Did you find anything early on that kind of helped get you through it and get started? 

Alicia B: Yeah! I went to a lot of Dharma talks that my local Meditation Center had. They also had a recovery group, and I've been to AA, actually years after when I was struggling. But I feel like everybody has their own thing. But honestly, what I would say I think the most important thing is really surrounding yourself with solid people who genuinely care about you and who aren't going to invalidate your experience and your relationship with it. I think that's also something that's really annoying, is that people be like, “I didn't know you had a problem” and you're just like, Yeah, because you're not inside my brain when I was literally torturing myself every day. That is also a thing about it that is, again, kind of like dangerous dialog around something like that. So, I would just prioritize, even if it's two people, because you lose a lot of friends, you know what I'm saying.

Matt C: Mmmhmm.

Alicia B: But even if it's like two people that are going to have your back, then just keep those two people around. I definitely prioritize who I tour with. Dry greenroom, nothing else. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. And that's been a huge help. But yeah, even if you just have a couple people. I had a friend, a couple of friends, who were in AA. I would just text one of them if I was struggling, and I would be like, “What are you doing?” Then we jump on the phone. And it was just like, let's just get through these five minutes. But even if it's just a few friends that you can call, that is what I would think is the most important. 

Matt C: Yeah! That's super good advice. And I don't think a lot of people think about that. But yeah, same for me. There's three core people that had gotten sober before I did, and they're my best, best friends and definitely just to have somebody that you trust and know that you could call and be like, “I gotta get through the next couple minutes”, is super, super helpful. 

Alicia B: Totally. Yeah, for sure. 

Matt C: Cool! Is there anything else you want to add? Do you feel good?

Alicia B: I feel good! That was so easy!

Matt C: Fuck yeah. Thank you!

Alicia B: Thank you so much!